BVKS Video Disappears / Laughing is Wrong Response / ISKCON Ethics Void Etc. 04 25 24

*** Bhakti Vikas Swami On Child Abuse.

*** Starts out by glorifying a predator.

*** His original video has been deleted.

*** CAN SOMEONE SEND ME THE TRANSCRIPT

OF THE ORIGINAL?

PADA: Thanks prabhu, yes BVKS does look rather ghostly ghoulish, and he seems to be bewildered and grasping at straws to justify their -- mass child abuse, worshiping pedophiles as acharyas, burying pedophiles in samadhis etc. -- regime -- and so on and so forth. 

And anyone who opposes their anal reconstructive surgery epidemic messiah's project, is going against shastra, and might become a ghost? Grasping at straws is really being overly kind to him. He is literally drowning in his own self made ocean of mass mistreatment of children, women, devotees, cows and all the rest. And yeah prabhu, when we tried to unstuck the ISKCON toilet full of poop, he helped have us removed, so he could drown ISKCON in an ocean of poop.  

And he already looks like a ghost? Yeah prabhu. His program is the "enforced cult ritualistic worship of homosexuals and pedophiles as messiahs project," and he is one of the enforcers. They are all starting to look like ghosts. 

He may lose disciples, no kidding, some of them wrote to me how disgusted they are with their BVKS pedo messiah's project's orchestrator, band leader, cheer leader, hand maiden, supporter, defender, shastric advisor, legal counsel, promoter, and overall jack booted assistant thug for the violence against children and Auschwitz for kids program. He is trying to defend the indefensible, and that will not work indefinitely. Yeah, he should be apologizing now, and he will be forced to later -- when he goes to Yamaraja -- if he does not do so here. ys pd      

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https://www.iskcontruth.com/2011/10/eminent-madhva-sampradaya-scholars.html?

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LAUGHING IS THE WRONG RESPONSE

PADA: Very funny indeed prabhu! First of all, what is funny about any of this? Children are being mass mistreated, they are taking their lives, my friends are getting taken out, and that is funny for-- whom? Yeah, Mathura Pati's pal Prahlad was discussing me on a video and he was laughing and joking the whole time. 

For you to say "that is funny prabhu" is why we have had to go to the karmi law enforcement, media and so on for help, the joker sector would not help. The karmis are with me, they don't think any of this is fun or funny. I have had so many devotees laugh and joke when I report serious issues, and that is why I had to use the karmis as my main helpers. 

I am not judging anything personally, so many devotees give me the cheeze cake "that is funny prabhu" smile when I reported things to them, they all think it is a comedy show and have all along. It is not funny for the victims. One of them just wrote me [I have heard from maybe thousands] that they are STILL having PTSD nightmares still -- and they have trouble functioning in the world. 

And that is time to bring on the comedy hour show? Yeah I take issue with it because that has been the main "devotee" response I get all the time, oh it is that crazy fool blabbing again, it is all a comedy show. And some of my other friends told me the same thing, when Mathura Pati types talk about me, they laugh and joke, they think this is all comedy show funny. That is not why we expose him personally, we expose not only him -- but all the laughing jokers, because they are all the same people who enabled all this. 

They laughed, while others suffered, and that means -- they have to be exposed -- and many people are helping me expose them -- because they are mortified by all this and they understand that "that is funny prabhu" is the wrong response to this issue, full time and all the time, the wrong response. 

I am quick to be offended? I am not offended at all. I am against the people who joke about mass child mistreatment and having people who oppose it taken out, no offense involved, that is just called plain following dharma. Has nothing to do with offense or non offense to me personally. Laughing at the suffering of others is called demoniac in the Vedic shastras, this idea is trillions of years old, it has nothing to do with me or my ideas made in recent times. 

ys pd angel108b@yahoo.com

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PADA The IRM are not really attacking JPS fully, for example they are still saying that JPS whispers on the November tape are "PADA's bogus theories." They are still covering for him. 

And they are still saying we should not have addressed JPS' role in the child mistreatment, we were wrong to address that issue, so the children would go on suffering, and even losing their lives. In other words, they were compromised then and still are now. 

And they still have not explained why it was a big mistake for me to get the BBTI rights, and I should not antagonize JPS with the BBTI lawsuit, and so on. They have never explained any of this. And neither they ever told me they think it was a mistake to send me to the Caribbean under JPS care. They have never officially told me that their being in bed with JPS was wrong, and I did the right thing by rejecting their plans. 

In other words, it looks like they are still upset I am not sitting in the Caribbean under JPS care right now. They never told me anything else. Neither anyone ever tells me why I should have gone off to the Caribbean under the IRM plan. They didn't change any of this, ever, by telling me their plan is -- wrong. They just keep the same complaints they made in 1999 on their sites now, meanwhile many people have agreed with me, their Caribbean plan was meant ... to get rid of me. 

So they are against Jayapataka, and they are against the people who are against Jayapataka, so that is called hypocrisy, as many children victims told me they are. I cannot even print herein what some victims have said about these IRM folks JPS compromisers. However, one victim told me, they wanted to get rid of you so they could get rid of us ... ys pd

PADA: Apparently, the BVKS video has disappeared. But BVKS met me in person maybe ten years ago and he said "your writings are famous all over the ISKCON world." So yeah, he cannot say he did not know about the issue of child mistreatment, he knew -- and he told me he knew. I also told him -- my life has been in peril, and he just chuckled. Big hah hah for these guys, when people like local law enforcement, the FEDS, Dr. Stilson Judah, media folks, my family etc. were mortified that I was challenging the BVKS process. They knew that I was in fact in peril. ys pd

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DD: It is because there is a serious void where fundamental ethics/morals/values should be.

It's so evident that it can make one question the whole philosophy as presented to us itself. If this is the Kali-Yuga (the most degraded age no matter what anyone does) and our primary goal is to escape the material world, then why be surprised when devotees don't give the slightest fuck about any issue, whether it is child abuse or climate change. that doesn't concern their own salvation directly

It is also because Prabhupada's immediate successors decided that ethics and morals and laws didn't apply to them, setting an example that a lot of devotees still follow today, even if unconsciously. It's real easy to ignore the serious issues and the world burning around you when you're on the transcendental platform with your transcendental ethics.

I used to think my diksa-guru and the community that surrounds him were the most enlightened people in the universe. But I haven't heard a peep from any of them about sexual abuse. In fact, when two of them hosted their fabulous #1 in the world Hare Krishna podcast a few weeks ago about the Peacock New Vrindavan documentary, their focus was not the abuse, but how much they didn't want their students at Princeton to watch the documentary. They then proceeded to have a geek-out session about how cool and exotic New Vrindavan seemed to them back in the day.

Not a single serious word about the trail of corpses and sexually abused children. One of the podcast hosts is the Hindu chaplain at Princeton and someone who should know a lot better than he does...

I remember when I was a very young and naive bhakta taking a field trip with some of the devotees from the Detroit temple. I was at the University of Michigan at the time in the film program and decided to bring a camera to make a documentary of the visit. Radhanath Swami was there ( I didn't really know who he was at that point, other than people kept throwing themselves at his feet) and he kept talking to this one gentleman, who I would later discover was one of the primary sexual abusers of children at NV back in the 1980's. I remember at one point taking some footage of the temple room and my camera, with no specific intention, capturing RNS and this individual talking to each other. They immediately froze when they saw they were on camera, like they knew they were doing something wrong and that shouldn't be documented, but when they saw it was just a nobody bhakta, they relaxed.

This same person who was the child abuser then gave a SB class where he demanded that we become slaves to Krishna. The devotee from Detroit who hosted the trip had to pull me aside after the lecture and make sure I was okay with that language. I didn't know what to think. In hindsight, I should've have run away from the devotees as fast as possible and never looked back...

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SD: TWO POINTS TO ADD FOR BACKGROUND:

1. I was born into ISKCON in 1978. I have heard leaders callously saying a child was raped or abused in some other way (neglectd, beaten to a pulp, arm broken, etc), because it was their karma. No sympathy. Even going so far as to say they should be thankful because they are burning off karma. So this bit about karma being your teacher is triggering to many of the second generation devotees raised in the Hare Krishna movement.

One gurukuli woman wrote:

"The pain you teachers and GBC put me threw……the isolation’s, segregating me from my parents and family……all the times i was molested and then finally raped YOU the devotees and your PHILOSOPHY said it was my fault my karma….at the age of 8 or nine my gurukula teacher told me to thank krsna that this man violated me now and not later, that i was paying for my karma, i must have done the same in my past life to a child and now i must accept what happened as krishnas mercy, tell that to my badly swollen 9 year old hairless vagina!"

One gurukuli man even titled his book of childhood abuse at the hands of Hare Krishnas as "My Karma My Fault":

https://www.amazon.com/My-Karma-Fault.../dp/B00HM8I4LU

2. Mahatma's wife was initiated by Dhanurdhara and still worships him as her guru. Mahatma goes with her on parikaramas and other programs where Dhanurdhara leads the group as a spiritual authority.

https://iskconleaders.com/jahnava-mataji/

In one abuse case, Mahatma was appointed as "liaison" and misused his position to defend the abuser, his good friend.

If Mahatma has ever supported a victim, I would love to hear about it.

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“CHAPTER 93: SRILA PRABHUPADA DISOBEYED -“If one is disobeying the spiritual master, he cannot remain in the pure status of life. He cannot be siksha -guru or anything else. He is finished, immediately.” (SPConv July 4, 1974)

After Srila Prabhupada’s physical departure, ISKCON underwent decades of internal turmoil and thousands upon thousands of devotees suffered greatly, most leaving the institution. This occurred because ISKCON leadership grossly disobeyed Srila Prabhupada’s instructions. Their deviant actions were great offenses to the true Acharya Srila Prabhupada, and the movement endured great confusion and pain. 

Because of a tyrannical administration allowing no open discussions, ISKCON members have been unable to properly study Srila Prabhupada’s teachings, and have been implicated in the institutional disobediance. The siddhanta is clearly understood by those who will ardently study and openly discuss Srila Prabhupada’s instructions, and even if there is disagreement, like-minded parties will galvanize into free, open, and separate communities. 

The leaders preyed on the gullibility and naiveness of the devotees by presenting the false message that Srila Prabhupada was dead and gone, thus requiring new gurus, regardless of their authority or qualification. The remedy to this aberration is to again obey Srila Prabhupada’s instructions, understood directly from his books, lectures, talks, and letters. 

“From now on unless I order you do something change or in addition, go on with the usual standard way. You manufacture ideas and then I have to waste my time. I have given you everything already, there is no need for you to add anything or change anything. Why you are asking these things? Who has given you such freedom?” (SPL Dhruvananda Jan. 4, 1973)

SRILA PRABHUPADA FROM SRIMAD BHAGAVATAM 4.28.48-51 

"Whenever an acharya comes, following the superior orders of the Supreme Personality of Godhead or His representative, he establishes the principles of religion, as enunciated in Bhagavad- gita. Religion means abiding by the orders of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Religious principles begin from the time one surrenders to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. 

It is the acharya's duty to spread a bona fide religious system and induce everyone to bow down before the Supreme Lord. One executes the religious principles by rendering devotional service, specifically the nine items like hearing, chanting and remembering. Unfortunately, when the acharya disappears, rogues and nondevotees take advantage and immediately begin to introduce unauthorized principles in the name of so-called svamis, yogis, philanthropists, welfare workers and so on [...] The acharya, the authorized representative of the Supreme Lord, establishes these principles, but when he disappears, things once again become disordered.

The perfect disciples of the acharya try to relieve the situation by sincerely following the instructions of the spiritual master [...] Similarly, a devoted disciple of the spiritual master would rather die with the spiritual master than fail to execute the spiritual master's mission. 

As the Supreme Personality of Godhead comes down upon this earth to re-establish the principles of religion, so His representative, the spiritual master, also comes to re-establish religious principles. It is the duty of the disciples to take charge of the mission of the spiritual master and execute it properly. Otherwise the disciple should decide to die along with the spiritual master. In other words, to execute the will of the spiritual master, the disciple should be prepared to lay down his life and abandon all personal considerations [...] 

When one becomes serious to follow the mission of the spiritual master, his resolution is tantamount to seeing the Supreme Personality of Godhead. As explained before, this means meeting the Supreme Personality of Godhead in the instruction of the spiritual master. This is technically called vani-seva. Srila Visvanatha Chakravarti Thakura states in his Bhagavad-gita commentary on the verse vyavasayatmika buddhir ekeha kuru-nandana that one should serve the words of the spiritual master. The disciple must stick to whatever the spiritual master orders. Simply by following on that line, one sees the Supreme Personality of Godhead." (Srila Prabhupada’s Hidden Glories, 1.558)

Perspectives on Child Abuse (Bhakti Vikas Swami / ISKCON) 04 23 24

RC: As an ex- aspiring devotee of BVKS, I can guaranty you that he is on the side of child abusers. He openly supports Jay Advaita Swami, Lokanath Swami, Radhanath Swami, etc. I've clearly understood his intentions in 2019 and hence I left his ashram as well as iskcon. 

In the beginning, he uses the verse in BG 9.30 api cet su-durācāro to glorify the crimes done by child abusers! Here's a video that shows his true colours:

 

DD: Bhakti Vikasa Swami,

You are right, child abuse is in a category of it's own. So why are you equating consensual sexual relations between two adults to be on the same level as an adult preying on an innocent child and sexually abusing them? These are two totally different things. Also, one is legal and one is a crime.

Per your own ISKCON Governing Body Commission, child abuse is considered "serious Vaishnava aparadha":

“[LAW] 501. THAT the GBC Body hereby declares that the International Society for Krishna Consciousness does not condone abuse of any kind, especially that which is directed towards dependents such as women, children, aged and cows. Battery, verbal and emotional abuse are destructive to the devotional creeper and thus considered serious Vaisnava aparadhas. Any attempt to justify this type of abusive mentality on the basis of sastra is misconstrued and is firmly rejected by all practicing Vaisnavas.” https://gbc.iskcon.org/1997

What is being asked by people who care about children, is that child abusers be restricted from holding leadership positions in ISKCON. They can do service; they just can't be worshipped or regarded with awe and reverence, giving classes, leading kirtan, etc. This is a basic approach to child abusers in spiritual societies everywhere.

Saying that because a perpetrator abused children "many years ago" it doesn't matter anymore is preposterous. The average age for a victim of child sexual abuse to come forward is age 52. Childhood is the most formative years of one's lifetime, and traumas incurred during childhood can last forever. Placing restrictions on child abusers is one small way that ISKCON can help their Vaishnava children heal, as well as helping the victims' friends and family heal.

p.s. Not all child abuse is child sexual abuse. You seem to be forgetting about neglect, physical abuse, and emotional abuse.

1997 – International Society for Krishna Consciousness – Website of the Governing Body Commission

BB: Blurs the line between consenting adults and child abuse. What they always do. "Sex is sex" as Kirtanananda told them.

RC: BVKS at first was actually quoting verses from scriptures such as "api cet su-durācāro" (BG 9.30) by saying that even if somebody commits an abominable act, he is still considered as a devotee and can be a leader. He then talks about stories that happened during Prabhupada's time with Hansadutta and others and he was shamelessly trying to put his statements by saying Prabhupada authorized these molesters (which is absolute nonsense and here he is making Guru aparadha by saying Prabhupada approved this nonsense).

Then he goes on to talk stories on how these molesters were kept silenced by GBC and how they are still eligible to be leaders.

Later he tries to give concocted statements in saying that the leaders they commit mistakes too and they are still preachers of the movement. At the end, he says that Iskcon doesn't have proper judicial proceedings. Then he says that he doesn't want to discuss with people who are not okay with even 1 case of child abuse. Which means he wants to only discuss in someone commits multiple child abuse doers. Here he proves the point that he is okay with child abusers. Such a shame!

DD#2: Clicking on the white square at the bottom of the video will display the subtitles. Then, by clicking on the gear icon, you can access the subtitle options and select automatic language translation.

SF: Thank you everyone. The thing is -- is it so hard? I could not pass the listening of " ex-abusers". It is as if someone completely else is talking.

SR: 'Transcript 0:09 starting now I'm now going to speak on 0:13 a very unpleasant 0:17 subject what I'm going to say will 0:20 definitely not 0:21 be 0:23 0：23 accepted or acceptable to 0:27 some might lose some friends and 0:30 disciples who strongly disagree with 0:35 me have been asked to clarify why'

DD: I was also dismayed to watch this just now. Was this Maharaja’s response to being asked to explain his ongoing support for Anirdesya Vapu even as Anirdesya Vapu’s crimes were becoming known?

If so, he doesn’t explain. In fact, he spends more time criticising those campaigning for child protection than he spends on condemning abuse.

And it’s largely a straw man. “They want to drive them away….. abandon due process…. They don’t believe in Krishna’s words.”

No one is advocating that abusers have no place anywhere. Let it simply be a humble place. Let them chant and perform menial service. Our objection is to their living in opulent palaces or being worshipped atop golden thrones.

SD has already dealt with the highly problematic moral equivalence issues in what Maharaja says where a child even experiencing their parents’ divorce is somehow compared to their being anally raped.

The main thing that really stood out for me in this unfortunate clip is that he demonstrated zero consideration for victims - zero understanding of the impacts of abuse in their lives. The “Vaisnavas” that he implores us to be compassionate towards are those who have transgressed against minors.

He implies that the growing movement of child protection is simply some kind of misguided moral panic - and that the risk that we should all be worried about has less to do with children’s lives being destroyed but that we might impede those who have abused but still have so much to offer Prabhupada’s movement.

This kind of attitude perfectly encapsulates why the movement is struggling to eradicate abuse. Because this kind of misplaced compassion and the wonky rhetoric that goes with it comes from those seated on Vyasasanas

RC: The very fact that he quoted api cet su-durācāro to support these abusers shows his willingness and support for them.

DD: He misrepresents how those concerned about child protection relate to this verse. He suggests that we just don’t accept or believe Krishna’s words.

But from what I have seen no one is denying that a person can redeem themselves via Krishna consciousness. But this verse is invoked typically by those defending abusers against any criticism or organisational censure. “You people should forgive and not criticise.” We object to the verse being weaponised to deter investigations, adjudication or even criticism of abuse and abusers.

RB: Bhakti vikasha Is going crazy completely!!!

TP: Hare Krishna! Srila Prabhupada was very clear in the case of Dallas gurukula abuse! He said to kick all the abusers out of the movement... and then he corrected his statement and said, but hang them first! It's one thing for someone in the high position to go to a prostitute... that is one kind of fall down one can still recover from with devotional service BUT to molest and rape a child, you are doomed unless you fall before the victim's feet and beg forgiveness !!! Raping and abusing Vaikuntha children, as Srila Prabhupada called them, is a SERIOUS Vaisnava aparadha!

RM Dasi: I didn’t see you already posted this and just shared it. I am completely sick to my stomach after listening to this. 

SR: It is unconscionable that Bhaktivikash swami equates Madhudvisa's fall down with a consenting adult woman, with the sexual assault of a Vaishnava child...

Kishori mataji tells the story when Prabhupada said that child abusers should be beaten first and then hanged!

This has to be the most shameless public defenses of child abusers I've ever seen by an ISKCON leader. The sad thing is that he's simply vocalizing what has been ISKCON'S unspoken policy on child abuse.

MG: I am sorry but just see how terrible he looks. He looks like a horror movie character. Nothing more you need to hear from him. 

BB: Simon Bar Sinister. The legal advisor to the criminals.

PW: After listening to Maharaja and your comments, the question arises: Why, after such a long time, has the GBC not enacted specific court procedures and why did they not heed Srila Prabhupada's instructions that those who repeatedly committed child abuse should be thoroughly punished and publicly hanged??? 

......Secondly, why were not punished the people who supported the perpetrators and remained silent on this matter for many years until the majority of ISKCON members learned about this terrifying phenomenon of pedophilia??? There is great propaganda of Varnasrama Dharma, and when is there a reason? 

There are no real ksatriyas and simple-minded Brahmins for specific action, who should immediately create a committee for the protection of the injured and a court within the organization, a fair trial and appropriate punishment of the perpetrators??? The effect now is the constant struggle of the CPO with the leaders and colleagues of the perpetrators who are trying to cover up the matter in order to whitewashing or rationalizing their heinous actions. 

It seems that the matter is clear: the named perpetrators must make amends to the victims and publicly confess their humiliation and be appropriately punished. If there are no specific harsh actions, it will not be possible to effectively eradicate the phenomenon of pedophilia......

Bows at the feet of all those who follow. All glories to Srila Prabhupada and His sincere followers!

NRD: No wonder victims are hesitant to come forward if people have these kind of attitude. In fact it was quite painful listening to him.

DD: When "leaders" speak extemporaneously like this, it gives true insight as to the paucity of thought. Not that those who prepare their words necessarily come across any better - as we have seen from those who prepare "press releases" about their stance on child protection. 

I suspect that when one becomes a guru and becomes accustomed to having acolytes hanging on every word, there's a certain confidence in one's own perspectives that naturally arises.

They all need communications people to look over their proposed statements - which in itself is quite an indictment for those essentially offering themselves as representatives of Vyasa, as spokespeople for the Supreme Lord and the guru varga. But the issue is not even about engaging expert communicators to clean up problematic ideas..... it's the problematic ideas themselves.... "I don't want to throw away all those good souls who have a little slip up but are otherwise good devotees...." (Apparently the children wounded by these people exploiting trusted positions to indulge their depravity are disposable though.) 

In fact, they practically don't even get a mention. The tragedy in the minds of these apologists is that people are criticising their friends and associates - not the lifelong traumas that they have wreaked on innocent children)

VB: Wow. I couldn't even finish watching this. "Ex-child abuser". What on earth is that. Have you ever heard of an "ex-murderer", "ex-rapist"? What was done was done and it cannot and shouldn't be forgotten. Maybe forgiven but not forgotten.

Downplaying child abuse, comparing poor Madhudvisa Prabhu to child abuser, please.

All we are asking is that child abusers are not glorified and having prominent positions in the society. Nobody wants to crucify them (ok maybe some do and that's still understandable). Why is it so difficult for these old men to understand that raping or beating someone's child upset decent human beings?

SD: Thank you for saying what I was thinking. I really really really wish Bhakti Vikasa Swami and ALL ISKCON leaders (GBC, gurus, etc.) would take annual child protection training and education courses. One can hope. 

Poison Issue And Other Histories (Upendranath dasa) 04 22 24

PADA: Some folks were discussing "the poison issue" prior to me getting the tape. However, no one either had the tape, or had made any transcript of it -- if they did. I was given the November 1977 tapes in 1997, and I had them transcribed by a Bengali writer. 

But I had no previously made transcript to compare mine to. And then I made my own translation of the tape [on a dual tape machine, using parts of the original with my explanation] at the time, and then I made 100 copies of that tape at a copy shop, and started to distribute my tape around the Los Angeles temple. 

And that was the only [original] official launch of the actual tape and transcript. This writer is correct however, some discussions of the poison issue had been going on, mostly in top secret conversations. OK people were terrified to bring it out, including the person who gave me the tapes.

But yeah. There may have been some previous discussions. But I don't see any evidence that the actual tape was being used, or that the people discussing were going public. Ok they weren't. 

At the time even most of the ritviks did not want me to release the tape. Krishna Kant, Kamshanta and his IRM folks told me that if I release it "we could lose our buildings in India." And Mukunda UK started writing that I am insane crazy man who need psychological help -- just after I released the tape. Yep, anyone who exposes Mukunda's Judas pals is a crazy man, who knew! 

And Mukunda's Judas defending disciples like Mathura Pati also say that we are crazy for exposing their Judas agenda even now, because they wanted to help the Judas / poisoner camp by discrediting our expose of their Judas pals. 

Yet, despite all sorts of naysayers, the issue has gone on ahead without them and still is. The GBC folks circulate their hand maidens like Mukunda and Mathura Pati's complaints back to me. See! You are a crazy man! Sorry, this issue is not crazy. Well thousands and thousands of devotees agree with me, law enforcement agrees with me, the FEDS agree with me, the courts agree with me, many media agrees with me. Who agrees with them? But even if no one agrees with me, the issue is -- Srila Prabhupada does complain of poison.

Mayesvara was also saying I am a mad fool barking dog, which is why the GBC spent $100,000,000 fighting lawsuits that I helped. "Your honor my opponent is a crazy person." OK fine, but not admissible as any kind of evidence of anything.

Sorry, name calling is not going to help, this issue is not going away, and Judas and his defenders are looking more and more like the crazy people. Someone just wrote to tell me, since many of these same people also defended the child abuse program, they are not as advanced as the common criminal karmis in prison, who will ALWAYS oppose child predators. But yeah, all these issues are linked, the poison issue, child abuse issue, book changes issues, same party is responsible for all these deviations. 

Anyway, another confirmation of the poison issue. And many other interesting points. 

ys pd]   

UPENDRANATH DASA

Srila Prabhupada Antya-lila, His Last 6 Months Prior to His Departure
NTRODUCTION:

(NEVER BEFORE PUBLISHED MEMORIES BY DISCIPLES AND FOLLOWERS OF SRILA PRABHUPADA)

My desire is to share this work, with this Group of Writers, which is actually a very large book, that I have been writing since 2009, while I lived in the Village of Naggar in the Himalayan Mountains of Himachal-Pradesh, in the Kullu Valley. My desire is to gradually present these memories, starting with a Prologue sample from all the last 6 months, and then specifically presenting in order, those that are 6 months prior, then 5 months prior, and so on, until the Last Month Prior to Srila Prabhupada Disappearance. 

The following Introduction, will explain this project, which I can assure you that you will get an insight to Srila Prabhupada and how he associated with his rank-and-file disciples.

In June of 1993, I retired from my work as a Professional Business Computer Systems Consulate; specializing in Hewlett Packard Large Main-frame Computer Systems. I left Los Angeles California in the first week of June 1993,, and in less than 20 hours I arrived in New Delhi India. The last time I had traveled to India was in 1974; that is a very long story which you will have to refer to my Autobiography, which I plan to write, for details. It was so hot when I arrived at the New Delhi Air Port. 

I arrived just after mid-night, and I thought that I would make my way to the New Delhi train stations, where I thought I would catch a train to Matura, and then a rickshaw of some kind to Vrindavana.

Before leaving Los Angeles, one young gurukuli devotee told me that I could catch a taxi from New Delhi to Vrindavana for 700 Rupees. I totally forgot this advice, and my mind was operating on the bases of on my last experience of traveling between New Delhi and Vrindavana 20 years prior. I got a taxi, an old Ambassador, from the airport to the train station. The ticket counters were lined up with hundreds, thousands it seemed; of people trying to get tickets for trains. If you do not know, in India, amongst the masses, there is no such thing as any orderly clam straight line in front of a counter. 

It is the opposite, which is very difficult to describe, other than to say it was CHAOS. & MAYHEM. It was absolutely madness, if you catch my drift. All signs were in Hindi, everyone spoke Hindi, and I was absolutely, lost and started to get terrified a little.

In India, especially in New Delhi, there are always persons trolling the airport, the train stations, for business, so to speak. The biggest catch for these people is a westerner, or just anyone who is not familiar with navigating this part of India. I noticed this one fella, staring at me. Eventually he came over to me and said,
“Sir my name is Nitu, I speak English, can I maybe help you in some way?”
I replied,

“Oh yes! I need a train ticket to Matura, please help me and I will pay you something”.

Nitu said, “No No Prabhuji, there is no train to Matura until morning time. I have taxi, and I can take you to hotel for you to spend the night because you look tired, and in the morning, I can arrange a taxi to take you to Vrindavana directly”
I responded, “I do not have too much money; I do not know if I can afford all that expense. So, how much will all that cost?”

Nitu said,

“Do not worry about the cost, it will be very cheap, you first rest the knight at my hotel, I have taxi to take us there, and we take care of you, and tomorrow morning we arrange taxi for Vrindavana”.

I was so exhausted, burned out, everything. Forgot the advice of that young devotee about the 700 Rupee taxi from the airport to Vrindavana; I was sweating like a pig, or a ditch digger underneath a blazing sun, with a temperature of 116 Fahrenheit. Talk about experiencing Bhagavad-gita 15.15,

“I am seated in everyone's heart, and from Me come remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness. …”

So, I submitted to these young man’s intention of helping me get to Vrindavana. I desired a 7-Up soft drink with crushed ice, and I was hoping that following the lead of this young Indian man, would lead me to my desire.

At the hotel, all shops around it, where closed, so in no time I realized that my desire for a cold 7-up was not to be fulfilled by my Supersoul. With somewhat of a struggle; I arrive in Vrindavan, from New Delhi, in the first week of June. The taxi had some serious engine problems, half way, and a 3-hour trip took 7 hours, with the taxi crawling along a about 20 miles per hour. On top of that, I was charged 2,800 rupees for the fare, which at that time was about $100, but it should have cost me $25; however, I did not know that at the time. Talk about getting “fleeced”.

Vrindavana was the same as I remember; DRY and SUPER HOT. Yep! What a coincidence; I arrived in Vrindavan in the same month, in 1974 and 1993.
I will now jump to around early 1994. I do not remember the actual date. Nevertheless, the story on how I came into the possession of a trunk full of typed manuscripts that resulted in this book, is as follows.

I was by that time, a well-established member of the JIVAS project. Briefly, this project was commissioned by the International BBT; to translate the literatures of the Six Goswami’s of Vrindavan and especially those of Srila Jiva Goswami from Sanskrit into English, and then print these books in the same manner as were the books of Srila Prabhupada. For more information on this terminated project, I refer you to the brochure for this project which you will find at the end of this Introduction. 

This project was inspired by Srila Prabhupada himself, and this testimony by Srila Prabhupada is reproduced in this brochure. Moreover, it was understood by the BBT and the GBC that Srila Prabhupada would have transudate the Six Sandarbhas by Srila Jiva Goswami, right after he finished the Srimad Bhagavatam.

Un-fortunately for all of humanity; he only completed up to the 10th Canto. This project was comprised of 5 initial devotees, including myself. It was 1994 and the BBT has given this initial JIVA project team $450,000 USD’s to purchase land, design, and construct a very large building that would house all the devotees that would take part in this project, from translation of the six Goswami’s literatures, to book production, to include artist to paint pictures just like the BBT did for Srila Prabhupada books. 

This project was a vision of Srila Prabhupada, and that vision was that he wanted an institute to do this. Moreover, he wanted to call it the Jiva Institute for Vaisnava Studies, thus the acronym JIVAS.

One year had passed, the first volume of Srila Jiva Gosvami ‘s Tattva Sandarbha had been produced and was awaiting the paintings to be completed before the printing would we be done. At that time this small group of 5, were working on the next volume, the Bhagavat-sandarbha. At the land that was purchased, the digging of the basement of the building dad been dug up by hand, the dirt hauled up by donkeys, the concrete basement, and the pillars for the building’s first floor were finished. In late 1996, suddenly the project was terminated.

Moreover, to this date, the translation and production of Srila Jiva Gosvami works, even the Sat-Sandarbha’s have been taken over by Satyanarayana dasa, one of the two leaders of the IIVAS project, forming his own. He has completed the transudations of all the Sandarbhas of Srila Jiva Goswami, and is continuing the transudations of other Gaudiya Vaisnavas literature as outlined din the JIVAS Project brochure. That project, and what happen at this time, is a long and very interesting story with elements of drama, intrigue, espionage, corruption, deceit, and betrayal.

This event and this period were a pivotal point in ISKCON’s history. As I write this Introduction it is November 2021. The details of this history have been forgotten due to it being covered up by the ISKCON GBC and the assistants of many senior Srila Prabhupada disciples. The proceedings of the GBC in concert with the head of the BBTI, at the 1996 Mayapur Festival, was secret, and has been sealed, and it was never published. 

Why did these disciples of Srila Prabhupada do this in 1996? I can only resolve in my mind that it is a par-excellent example of “personal ambition”. Therefore, I will certainly provide these details in my Dairy.

In this regard, about a month after the Mayapur festival in the spring of 1996, in Vrindavan, Kurma-rupa Dasa and I approached one of these GBC sannyasis and we were discussing this event looking for answers. At one point in the conversation Kurma-rupa Dasa asked this sannaysi, the following question,

“So! What about the truth?”

He replied, “The truth is not the issue”.

Thus, a clue to this intriguing event, which I concluded that the “issue” was “power”, keeping their reigns on their “Power”, in ISKCON, and the “Truth” was irrelevant. One of the principal members of the JIVAS project was Kundali Dasa. I had a very close relationship with him for the next 7 years. He certainly helped me to understand what I believe to be one of the most important aspects of Srila Prabhupada teachings.

One day when I visited Kundali in his room at the Gurukula Building; he told me about the project he was involved with after the departure of Srila Prabhupada. He told me that Satsvarupa Goswami was going to write a book about Srila Prabhupada’s life in ISKCON; and it would be called “Srila Prabhupada Lilamrta” Apparently the plan was to send several devotees out to all the ISKCON centers, and interview Srila Prabhupada disciples and followers who had close and personal association with Srila Prabhupada. 

The purpose was to record on tape, these devotee’s “remembrances” of Srila Prabhupada. What is important, to know, in this regard; is that interviews were being sought from devotees who had direct contact with Srila Prabhupada.

The tapes where then transcribed (typed with a typewriter) on 8 ½ by 10 paper). I believe this transcribing effort was conducted in the 1080;s. Remember, in those days there was no word processors what to speak of personal computers. These typed manuscripts were coded at the top with a two-digit number, that was an account of these remembrance in chronological order. 

These two-digit number represented a specific period in time. So, instead of trying to de-code these number of 81, 82, 83, 84, 85 and 86 and determine the dates in time they represent, I decided to just use the sequential number, and roll with that. In this regard the manuscripts in my they do constitute Srila Prabhupada’s disciples and followers’ remembrances during the last 6 months of Srila Prabhupada life, on this planet Earth.

Kundali continued to explain to me that Satsvarupa Goswami wrote the “Lilamrta” without incorporating any of these manuscripts. He continued to explain to me that these manuscripts were then stored in sheet steel filing cabinets in one of the ISKCON temples on the Eastern side of the USA. I do not recall, but it might have been in Philadelphia, does come in to my mind. Kundali dasa was without a doubt the best lecturer, and writer in ISKCON. That ability continued up to sometime before the year 2000 or 2001, when he disappeared, and little is known about his where abouts.

Also, several times, when he gave a class at the Vrindavan Krishna and Balarama Temple, when he finished, all the devotee’s present, spontaneously gave a loud and lasting applauds. This I have never ever witness during all my years as a member of ISKCON, 1972 to 1978 in Loa Angeles, and then from 1993 to 1999 in Vrindavan, after a lecture by any disciple of Srila Prabhupada.

Kundali continued to explain that before he left the USA to move to Vrindavan India; he went to these filing cabinets and made copies of the documents coded with 81 to 86. He said that these documents; he wanted to use in writing a book that he would call “Srila Prabhupada Antya-lila”, the life of Srila Prabhupada in the last 6 months on this Planet Earth. A collection of remembrance by a wide variety of Srila Prabhupada disciples and followers who had personal communication and contact with his Divine Grace.

At that time, we had 386 and 486 PC’s and we were running and early version of MS Windows and MS Word. He asked me if I would kindly help him with this project by transcribing these typed documents on to MS Word documents. I would then give these computer Word files to him and he could then use them in his effort to write the book. This is where the intrigue begins.

Kundali explained that sometime after coping the manuscripts he desired; it just happened that a fire broke out in the small file room; and all these tape transcripts were destroyed. This is a fact that you might just keep in your mind. Hence, these copies which he had in a metal trunk are the only surviving records of that big effort, by many devotes, to record and transcribe the remembrance of Srila Prabhupada by a wide range of disciples. 

A question comes to my mind.

How can all the 8 ½ by 10 pieces of paper burn to ashes inside of a sheet steel filing cabinet? How did a fire start in a file cabinet small room? Why was the fire contained only in that small room? The fire certainly could have not started inside any of the filing cabinets. If the fire was contained to the small file cabinet room, how could it be possible for each of the filing cabinets catch fire inside and burn all the documents to ashes? I am familiar with such cabinets, and a fire inside a small room, that was snuffed out before it could spread, would only at worst, singe the documents in the steel sheet file cabinets. I will leave it at that.

The intrigue of the termination of the JIVAS project had a devastating effect on all its members. By that time, I had only transcribed a small amount of these transcripts. By the year 2000 we all went in different directions in our life’s. Why you may ask? Well to make a long story short; we were basically “ostracized out of ISKCON”.

Ostracized --- T o excludes, by general consent, from society, friendship, conversation, privileges, to banish (a person). In ancient Greece) to banish (a citizen) temporarily by vote.

I had only transcribed, to computer files, about one-tenths of the type-writer manuscripts; but I had not yet delivered any of the computer MS Word document files to Kundali. What happened to Kundali is a sad story; which I will not tell due to my respect for him because of all the Krishna conscious knowledge I learned from him. I am forever grateful because he taught me what I came to understand is the most important aspect of Srila Prabhupada teachings. Therefore, I ended up possessing these transcripts which I will use to produce this book myself. 

These original documents have been stored for safe keeping; so, speak. In addition, they are proof of the content of this book, and they are stored in a very safe place where they cannot be burned to ashes.

It is sometime in 1994 and I am transcribing these manuscripts. At one point in this process; I came to a terrifying realization after transcribing one devotee’s remembrance. I printed out a copy of this document, and took it first to my godbrother Kurma-rupa Dasa (another member of the JIVAS project). I expressed my conclusion to him and then I said to him,

“Prabhu! Please read this transcription and tell me if you come to the same conclusion, I have just expressed to you?”

He read it in front of me; which took a while for it was 30 pages long. His face stared to a show sign of astonishment, and non-belief. When he finished, he turned his head and looked at me and said in a rather sad and serious voice,

“Yes! I agree with you”.

I did the same with Kundali Dasa and he also said that he came to the same conclusion.

Now I will tell you what that conclusion or realization is:

“Srila Prabhupada was poisoned!”

Please note that, at that time, there had never been any rumor or mention by anyone of such a thing. It was un-imaginable.

I shared this document and my conclusion with several of my close God brothers in Vrindavan. Yep! Somehow or another; I believe, that somehow or another, this was the beginning of the “Poison Rumor”. Vrindavan has the Kartika festival in the Fall; and many thousands of devotees attend. Hence, there is the possibility for rumors to spread to the remainder of the ISKCON world.

Many years later a God brother, forgotten his name, contacted me by e-mail sometime around 2004 or 2005. He claimed the he was investigating this “Poison Theory” and had come to know that I had these copies of the manuscripts that were remembrances of Srila Prabhupada during the last months of his life. He asked me if he could have copies of them. I told him that I would think about it; and would contact him later. 

That never happened because I decided straight away not to provide him with these documents because I was going to produce a book of Srila Prabhupada last months on this planet Earth. Moreover, I did not know who this devotee was, never heard of him, and I had a feeling that I could not trust him. I never replied to him, and I never heard from him also.

Now it is November 2021, and I have a good feeling that I will have finished this book by the end of the year. Most of these document’s require transription to Word Document files. It is very laborious to do this by putting the document next to me on my desk and copy it by typing on MS Word. 

Lucky for me that all this time has gone by without completing this aspect of the project. I now have the assistance of Bhakta-Abbyy-Fine-Reader, which is a powerfully piece of a software tool. All I must do know is scan these documents in to a scan file format on to my computer, and this software program will produce a MS Word document for me in a matter of a minute or so.

At this time, I hope you enjoy reading this work and I gradually present it, and I will leave it to your own scrutiny, inspection, examination, and analysis. I will surely wonder if you also come to the same conclusion.

Besides this aspect of the book; it is otherwise full of great and wonderful remembrances; that unquestionably come under the category of Srila Prabhupada “NECTAR”. Most of what happened during the last months of Srila Prabhupada life was told or written about by senior ISKCON authorities. Never were we told that these transcripts existed. The questions I ask and needs answers are:
Why did Satsvarupa Goswami not use these transcripts in producing the “Srila Prabhupada Lilamrta”???

And even more mysteriously; is it not strange that a small file room, at a ISKCON temple, burn out on the inside; causing only extensive damage to the inside of the steel file cabinets ONLY???

How could a fire, in such a small room, start???

And even more mysteriously; even if there was a fire inside this file room. How could all the contents in “steel sheet” filing cabinet be completely destroyed / consumed into ashes? Would not the filing cabinet give some protection and only leave charred on the edge’s documents???

And how could a small fire that did not spread to the rest of the temple complex just burn inside the small file room, consume everything inside the filing cabinets and then die out and not spread to the remainder of the building???

These events make no sense to me; but the transcripts of these normal, ordinary Srila Prabhupada disciples make a whole lot of sense; and especially the one that led me to my conclusion. So now you can have the opportunity to read or hear for yourself from this wide range of Srila Prabhupada disciples; what they remember about associating with or being around him. With this book, you will get the best, and unsurpassed understanding of Srila Prabhupada’s last months on this planet Earth; and especially the last month which is the most disturbing.

P.S.: “I dedicate this book to all of Srila Prabhupada’s sincere disciples”.

I will present at least one, and sometime more than one memory at a time, that will denote the Code Number if known (some did not have it), and Dates if the documents contained them.

If I am permitted by the facilitators of this Group, I will post them gradually, for I have other work on my plate. Attached Below I have copy of an Original Hand Typed Transcript from a Tape Interview of a Srila Prabhupada Disciple; interviewed by a Srila Prabhupada disciple, and with a Code Number of "86" that means it is a Memory of Srila Prabhupada during his Last Month (Nov 1977), before he Departed.

"KARMA" / Mahatma / Jahnava / Dhanurdar Connection 04 21 24

 

LB: No offence to him but it shocks me that so many like him could have the thought coming to their minds that they are qualified to be a guru and guide people . So much for being honest and self realised.

PMD: “Guru cannot be self-made. No. There is no such single instance throughout the whole Vedic literature. And nowadays, so many rascals, they are becoming guru without any authority. That is not guru. You must be authorised. Evam parampara-praptam imam ra… As soon as the parampara is….kalena yogo nasta parantapa, immediately finished. The spiritual potency finished. You can dress like a guru, you can talk big, big words, but it will never be effective.”

[Srila Prabhupada, Srimad Bhagavatam Lecture, April 14, 1975, Hyderabad]

PKK: Till it happens to him or his kid!

D Dasi: This type of consciousness is propagated by many devotees, and is extremely detrimental for women and children in our society.

HD: He is so deluded because he is so self-obsessed as the arbiter of goodness. His motto “I told you so!”

CF: If someone wants to bring this to Mahatma's attention, he is more than welcome to come here and explain why he teaches like this or if he is being misquoted. He does have a Facebook page where one can send him a message.

FR: Philosophy twisted by crooks.

GP: Although true, it is not appropriate in situations where abuse has occurred, and the concept can be seen as support for the abusers, although we learned something from the abuse, that doesn't excuse the abuser's or criminals or their supporters from facing due punishment. At this time in the history ... if iskcon and the world in general, I believe we need to hear more talk of honesty and justice.

CH: Who is this bonker?

NC: This is the same guy that is charging for Japa classes. Everything rolls back to Radhanatha.

LS: I’ve been in South America recently and he is making a killing charging for his conferences there -- playing many times the role of a “psychologist” without a degree. Innocent people are falling for this. Defended by some leaders there. It is a shame. Should be preaching straight Krsna Katha and not wishy-washy philosophy.

AD: The problem with preaching like this is that it encourages so-called devotee abusers to justify being so-called good agents of karma to punish and abuse misbehaved children instead of artfully changing such children with purity, tolerance, happy devotional activities and genuine love like a mother loves her child.

Better to teach everyone how to become free from bad karma by being happily engaged in the process of Krishna consciousness so that potential abusers don't misinterpret and harm children or anyone else.

I read some reports of abusers using the above statements while abusing children, saying I am the agent of your karma, take this, take that. It was so sad to hear about it. Teacher and parent training is a most important topic. And he is the wrong person to do the teaching.

The Seven Day Adventist vegetarian Christian group conducts parent and teacher training courses for their community and as a result, they have the least amount of abuse and divorce problems. Where are the ISKCON Parent and Teacher Training courses? 

BB: You mean ... freedom from karma ... is a licence to give children suffering karma, because there is no karma for the perps harming children? WTF? Whenever these people speak, I need to take my nerve pills. 

SR: My father used to go to a wellness retreat in California run by the Seventh Day Adventists. He said once a week they would all go to a nearby hall and listen to music and singing by the children of the community. He said everyone was happy and healthy in the community.

AJD: In the UK many years ago my wife and I attended the Seventh Day Adventist Parenting Course and we learned so many practical common sense things that helped us to have a more harmonious family and to take better care of our son. It worked.

Why are the leaders at the TOP of ISKCON so oblivious to what is actually happening at the BOTTOM of Iskcon with the children in the homes and schools of all the devotees? Sitting in ivory towers?

We have gurus with more disciples than they can practically train and teach and they give so many WILD statements that are seen as absolute by their trained-to-be mindless disciples.

For example, bvvnm declared in his lecture last week:

"THE COWS NEED GRASS TO EAT. THE COWS DON'T EAT MONEY."

This statement is TOTALLY INSANE. Srila Prabhupada himself gave money for 5 cows in 1972 and he gave more than 1,000 instructions on Cow Protection that revolves around collecting money to feed the cows.

Cows are like children who need protection which requires money.

And this guy declares don't give money to cows because they just eat grass. Hello, is there anyone home? There is no instance of providing grass for cows without spending MONEY on acquiring, maintaining, and bordering land for cultivating grass; providing extra grain feed; hiring workers; treating sick cows; providing fresh drinking water, providing shelters from extreme weather conditions, etc, etc,.

This statement is just the tip of the ice berg in terms of serious philosophical deviations from Srila Prabhupada's teachings on Cow Protection, Guru Tattva, etc.

While the gurus glut themselves on the TOP by accumulating opulence, money and disciples, so many children at the BOTTOM are the ones that are the most neglected and abused. And now prominent ISKCON leaders are publicly defending the worst child abusers in the history of ISKCON. What in the hell is going on here?

DL: May I ask who bvvnm is? 

AJD: Formerly Birsimha Das from Scotland who became Bhakti Vigna Vinasana Narasimha Maharaja. As a friend and Godbrother I'm trying to help him clear some of his very serious philosophical deviations that disqualify him from acting as a diksha guru for his hundreds of disciples.

DL: I appreciate you speaking out.

TB: The leaders at the top should be required to have training on how to be proficient skilled leaders ! The first qualification should be a compassionate, gentle, kind, loving heart then training! Then all trickles downwards! Our movement needs revamping! 

AD: 'HH BVV Narasimha Swami'

SJ: This is the first time I’m aware of him.

MM: Your father sounds like a very wise and progressive man. One capable of finding truth and goodness from many places.

DB: I was relieved when I took my son out of Gurukula and placed him in the Seventh Day Adventist school. He was happy and safe there.

AJD: Bvvnm preaches in China, Malaysia, and Asia and I have always been his big admirer and friend until he started preaching some serious philosophical deviations. I complained and JPS requested me to take it up with ISKCON Resolve, headed by Vraj Vihari Prabhu, and I did. 

ISKCON Resolve don't make any judgment, their stated purpose is to bring devotees together to communicate their differences and get them resolved. Unfortunately, that didn't happen, and here is why.

I presented to ISKCON Resolve my complaint with evidence that bvvnm has been systemically preaching against Srila Prabhupada's transcendental cow protection seva.

Even given that irrefutable audio and video evidence, shockingly, bvvnm denied it all and claimed he has always supported cow protection. He blatantly lied to the ISKCON resolve. That's where it ended. All I want is for him to STOP preaching against Srila Prabhupada's transcendental cow protection seva.

Bvvnm claims cow protection is a mundane pious activity, it's just a ritual and is not important, and it's not direct devotional service even though Srila Prabhupada spoke about cow protection more than 1,000 times. And he instructs devotees not to give money for cow protection. Here is a quote from a lecture he gave around a week ago:

"THE COWS NEED GRASS TO EAT. THE COWS DON'T EAT MONEY."

If that is how bvvnm is mistreating cows, which is a HUGE RED FLAG, imagine how much he might be neglecting the protection of the children of his hundreds of disciples?

I will report him to the ISKCON Cow Protection Minister and the GBC Executive, but I'm not expecting much ... given the fact that our top leaders and the GBC are supporting ISKCON's worst and most horrific child abusers and trying desperately to have them re-instated on a regular basis.

So for the proper guidance of devotees in general and particularly bvvnm's disciples, I am publicly advising them to simply take shelter in Srila Prabhupada's wonderful ocean of perfect instructions instead of following bvvnm's serious philosophical deviations.

SC: Thank you for making this very important point. There is a lot we can learn. And wouldn't it be nice if ISKCON leaders prioritised out children and families?

SD: I think some context to this post would be helpful.

Having grown up in the Hare Krishna movement and now in my 40s I have heard on multiple occasions, leaders callously saying a child was raped because it was their karma, or abused in some other way. With no sympathy. Even going so far as to say they should be thankful because they are burning off karma. So this bit about karma being your teacher is triggering to many of the second generation devotees raised in the Hare Krishna movement.

One gurukuli woman wrote:

"The pain you teachers and GBC put me threw …… the isolation’s, segregating me from my parents and family …… all the times i was molested and then finally raped YOU the devotees and your PHILOSOPHY said it was my fault my karma …. at the age of 8 or nine my gurukula teacher told me to thank krsna that this man violated me now and not later, that i was paying for my karma, i must have done the same in my past life to a child and now i must accept what happened as krishnas mercy, tell that to my badly swollen 9 year old hairless vagina!"

One gurukuli man even titled his book of childhood abuse at the hands of Hare Krishnas as "My Karma My Fault":

https://www.amazon.com/My-Karma-Fault.../dp/B00HM8I4LU

My Karma My Fault

AMAZON.COM

SD: Mahatma's wife was initiated by Dhanurdhara and she still worships him as her guru. Mahatma goes with her on parikaramas and other programs where Dhanurdhara leads the group as a spiritual authority.

https://iskconleaders.com/jahnava-mataji/

Dhanurdhara was the most named child abuser in ISKCON's $15 million bankruptcy settlement to settle child abuse claims.

https://www.facebook.com/saraswatidasi/posts/10159952664195218

In one abuse case, Mahatma was appointed as "liaison" and misused his position to defend the abuser, his good friend. If Mahatma has ever supported a victim, I would love to hear about it. 

Jahnava Mataji | ISKCON Leaders

KH: He is not wearing a kurta or tilak so it seems clear the audience is not devotees but more so for 'new people', and not devotees or their children.

PP: Kanishta gurus. wishy washy philosophy by Mahatma das.

PD: This is something like what happened to me here in Berkeley. An ex-GBC disciple came up to me on the street and announced that he is now eating hamburgers. Why is that I asked? Well, he explained, any cow born in the USA already has "the karma" of being made into a Mc Donald's, so there is not karma if we go to Mc Donalds. 

See, I am not creating karma, the cow's karma already exists, I am not the cause. I said yeah but even if someone deserves bad karma, only the authorized agents of Yamaraja are qualified to dispense "bad karma," we are not. He did not get it. But this was their changing horses mid-stream argument. 

First they said I am a liar. When we had them sued, then they switched over to "yeah but this is the victim's karma." And they were cursing at me for helping the lawsuit, which they did not just accept as bad karma, they blamed us. Mahatma was still promoting Gunagrahi as Krishna's guru successor even after it was known Gunagrahi was addicted to porno. Yep, children need to worship a porno swamias their link to God. And then Gunagrahi was buried in samadhi. 

And Gunagrahi was famous for destroying marriages and families in South America, leaving many children vulnerable. Then a woman wrote to tell me she gave all her life saving money to Mahatma for her Mayapur apartment, but the building was not even under construction and so she ended up homeless in her car. They are a team. ys pd

EB: Disqualified whole lot, making their living out of so called guruship title, corrupt and untrustworthy.

GP: Thanks, it's good to see the history of these gbc guru people in black and white, so innocent people are not mislead.

VG: Amongst the venerable prabhus,who is able to philosophicaly defeat this vada, result of 50 years of churning the shastras during the daily morning talk shows? What nectar and gems have we collected to oppose these poisonous superstitious talmudic statements? The naked true is that most of us have been depossessed of many tattvas due to the absence of qualified teachers.

VP: Love is the ultimate teaching, not Karma.

ZD: This is a fundamental principle of our literatures. There is nothing wrong with what he his saying. If you are getting these principles twisted, then its probably time to make your spiritual practice more serious and take time to contemplate contemplate contemplate.

CF: I've contemplated quite a bit (I practiced for twenty years, doing everything from book distribution on the 59th street subway platform in NYC to getting a PhD in religious studies).

..and I've decided that if anyone tries to justify this teaching to me or to anyone else, they should run away from that person as far as possible.

So tell me, since you seem to know so much, all those kids who were abused in the ashrams and gurukulas, they deserved it because it was their karma?

ZD: I know one of them. And I have had my own life turned upside down as a result of my knowing. It's not been easy, and this journey with this person is not complete. The details are my learnings. Take away what you want from my words. You can run all you want from me. Block me. Hate me. How far can you run from God though. If I made up truth I can tell You now... This world would be awful. I didn't though.

And I appreciate all your experience this lifetime, but I also appreciate mine too, and also my ancestral line and my own past lives.

Hare Rama 

CF: If you truly had your life turned upside down you wouldn't agree in the slightest with Mahatma's BS interpretation of karma. And take my advice: stop being such a little obedient dog to these teachers and to this concept of God which is really just a projection of a bunch of anal-retentive, power-hungry swamis and priests. 

MM: We might easily interpret the above quote to mean something like - - yes. As I have experienced and or witnessed inhuman and despicable abuses by Iskcon leaders, I will fight to expose them and bring their crimes to light, so such predators will be gone. I think my interpretation carries more wisdom and benefit to human society! Thus, no reason it shouldn’t be embraced by all sincere souls.

Perhaps Mahatma dasa hadn’t really given much depth of thought to his fortune cookie quotes.

GP: As you say it is true, but it is how we use the true statements that either help or not help us and others, regarding child abuse in iskcon it's better to hear about the abusers getting their karma than subtley being told the victim is guilty. We do understand anything that happens is by god's arrangements to help us go forward in life, but we also want to see some justice, not be pushed down and critisised for standing up for justice.

AC: ZD, Sita Devi is supramundane, which means her suffering is impossible. Sita Devi is The Supreme and is always in bliss - never suffering. Next you will be saying the Gopis were 'suffering' in their separation from Sri Krishna?

SF: I have never heard anyone saying "Agents of karma are your teachers " before. That is not "fundamental part of our philosophy" at least not in Vaisnavism. But honestly, if sanskrit wasn't used...; it reminds me of Eastern Orthodox and some Catholic monastics orders; praying and embracing as much suffering , humiliation and maltreatment as possible.

SS: Obviously karma exists, most everybody knows that! The important thing, and the obvious result of that is to take responsibility for our actions. That's the intelligent and moral result of this understanding. Otherwise, you're just a childish charlatan, and probably have criminal tendencies!

JS: Due to their karma they have become GBC (general bathroom cleanerssssssssss) ...

VH: Basically it means that I could kick his butt and he would just have to accept it as his karma, right? Hm! 

SS: Such bull shit. People need to take responsibility for their behavior, and not come up with pathetic excuses like this.

ADD: Ha ha! Impersonal bs! Psychopaths using the philosophy to harm others. Who appointed the criminal to do harm, other than his sick whimsical mind and his perverted desire to be God? If the above was absolute true then Manu samhita, the law-book of mankind is useless.

SF: Let's say everyone is on the highest saintly martyr level; and fully, by Divine Intervention capable of accepting that - abusers taught victims something and it is great learning experience. Then, should victims ask for more of the same then, by that logic? More "education", more karma agents returning "the favor" for treatment from previous lives?

Once my friend was describing our Balkans type of regime, with fortunately no pedophilia as there were no children; but ridden with hazing, exploitation and embezzling: In this community masochists gathered to meet sadists.

It would.be really interesting hearing how this kind of preaching would go in, for example, Bosnia. In region where Bosnian Serbs kept Muslim women as sex - slaves and fathered children during Civil war years of the '90's.

Should the victims now then naturally be grateful and loving to their rapists? Maybe those paramilitary looters, pimps, baby killers and rapists should give courses - on how to be more effective - " agents of karma "? Where does this madness end with Mahatma's ideas?

SF: If there was no sanskrit, this would sound to me like indirect homage to Christian early martyr - saints.

BB: Children have had to be martyrs in Mahatma's religion.

KH: You are taking this completely out of context, he is not talking about child abuse at all. He is deeply concerned about child abuse issues in the society and advocates for changes through SABHA and with his God brothers.

BB: He does not say it does not apply to ISKCON, or children.

RD: I find the historical background for this attitude very telling.

Firstly, what he is saying verbatim reflects the words of my spiritual master, and the latter quotes Prahlad Maharaj who never retaliated and thus got darshan and protection. While this works if you are highly advanced spiritually or protected by noble ksatriyas, it won't work for most devotees in ordinary unprotected circumstances. Sadly, we need to learn how to protect ourselves through self-defence (which I teach, also for children) and being proactive (!!!) parents, uncles, sisters, etc. Since we now all are in the role of protectors, such mindset often turns out disastrous and fatal.

Ahimsa is a principle that was spread and over-emphasised by the Shramanas starting from around 700 BC to counterbalance excessive bloodshed by the Brahmanas during sacrifice and by the Ksatriyas during war. In a sense it was a necessity of time. But people thereafter often misused ahimsa principles to circumvent needed confrontation and defense, thus making the Hindus vulnerable to exploitation and occupation, of which they had plenty. 

In fact, as sad as this is, India is perhaps the classic example of a narcissist supplier (a victim of narcissists ready to supply them with food). Although it was being exploited over centuries, it hardly retaliated and excludes these chapters stealthily from their own school books. Let's ask ourselves: Why does nobody know that the tragic Hinducide by the Muslims (and Britishers) was the largest genocide ever, larger than Auschwitz and slavery of the Americans combined?

Hindus only speak of their past noble kings, but in reality their healthy defense is totally destroyed and thus they have become the perfect victims of narcissists, including abusers, of course. To reverse that conditioning requires therapy for all members and reintegration of the ksatriya culture, starting from all, with self-defence training for all, and creating deep samskaras of self-worth and resilient heroism in daily action.

And no, I am not parroting Hindu nationalism here. I'm speaking about healthy defense. Guess what you need if you don't like toxic defense? You need a healthy defense. As long as we don't cultivate healthy defense, we cultivate both a culture of abuse and a (logical) toxic nationalist response.

JP: Then why didn’t Arjun simply accept his Karma?… and relinquish the war. 

SF: Especially realtively newer Gurus have a tendency to prefer particular type of audience, while simultanesouly would rather not to interact certain other kind(s).

SD: Mahatma's wife was initiated by Dhanurdhara and still worships him as her guru. Mahatma goes with her on parikaramas and other programs where Dhanurdhara leads the group as a spiritual authority.

https://iskconleaders.com/jahnava-mataji/

Dhanurdhara was the most named child abuser in ISKCON's $15 million bankruptcy settlement to settle child abuse claims.

VC: Yup so his quoting made up quotes to make himself feel like he is on the right path with who he associates with and supports. These ppl are his path to fame adoration and distinction. He has become from a nobody one of the many in alachua to somebody (in my eyes still a nobody).

AJ: Wow I didn't know that. Thanks for sharing, it helps to make better evaluation of what's actually going on in the background with this particular high profile guru.

You mentioned some horrific abuse cases which have surfaced. Many times more would have occurred but have not surfaced yet and may never surface.

What's even more disturbing is that some top Iskcon gurus and sannyasis are supporting child abusers when they are the ones who should be making the most noise about protecting and compensating thousands of abused Iskcon children.

SA: Since when do “devotees” act as agents for “karma”. We are against suffering and causing others to suffer! Fie on them who use “karma” to justify their wicked lustful ways!

AA: Approach the one who preaches such teachings, take his money and start insulting his daughter. Will he treat you with the respect worthy of a teacher, start shouting at you that you are a bastard and should give him your property, or will he defend his daughter? 

There is such a thing as dharma, morality, evil and good and their meaning, the sense of what is right and what is wrong, this is the dharma of Vaishnavism. And Vaishnavas, like Arjuna, acted according to this sense of justice, he also fought against evil, actively // if someone experienced robbery, rape, he chased a thief, a criminal, without telling the victim that it was his karma, and considered the perpetrator as a teacher. 

You can investigate philosophically, but your main duty is to oppose evil. Perhaps the quote makes sense, but in a broader context "it is obvious that the Vaishnava culture was a culture in which evil was punished and perpetrators could not feel unpunished." Otherwise, you create a culture of evil that allows evil.

AE: It is a twisted interpretation. Show me where shastra says we shouldn't blame others for our karma. Of course we should, because it is an ongoing cycle. They are not white angels making the will of God, they are perpetrators and we are being punished at the same time. Both things are truth, but the cheap philosophy is used to cover so many rascal activities, for example, not taking care of sick fellow devotees.

AP: There was always something about this guy that irked me…and I could never quite put my finger on it. Now I know…

BW: It’s funny how child abuse “karma” diminishes after some child protection guidelines are enforced, proper training is required and background checking is instituted. If everything we experienced in Gurukula was all of our karma, then nobody would need to do any of that ever. It’s much more accurate to state that Iskcon dropped the ball and ran boarding schools without having proper qualifications and kept the Gurukulas as their lowest priority.

PD: That is correct. As soon as they were being sued for $400M, they all of a sudden started all sorts of child protection (CPO) teams etc. And that was not serious at all -- because they went on protecting Bhakti Vidya Purna swami and his entire entourage anyway. 

And they just gave me vulture glares in LA and avoided me. And at the same time -- they also started a $20,000,000 lawsuit in India -- to have the directors of a free food for children program put into jail. They spent $20,000,000 trying to stop a program that feeds kids, just after they were sued for mistreating kids here. They went to the Delhi Supreme court with this, and I helped defeat the GBC case with documents. 

And when Jayapataka asked for another $1,000,000 to continue the case, they sent Bhakti Caru here to collect more funds, and he departed from his body here. After that they seem to have lost the ability to continue their lawsuit. When Jayapataka saw me in LA, he ran at me screaming like a mad elephant, they were angry with the lawsuit, and were upset they were going to have to take measures to address it. ys pd

FR: Says who, you punk Mahatma!

JM: Did kings in Satya, Treta, and Dvarpa Yuga allow criminals to run rampant because they were agents of karma? Did Lord Rama just let Sita go because Ravana was an agent of karma? Did Krsna tell Arjuna to go home instead of fighting because Duryodhana was an agent of karma?

Asking for a friend.

PADA angel108b@yahoo.com